About chronic fatigue, hypoglucemia, zinc and copper

Have a question about a symptom, procedure, medication, diagnosis, research, or coping? Ask questions and share what you know with others

Moderator: pmaxwell

About chronic fatigue, hypoglucemia, zinc and copper

Postby LFRM » Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:30 pm

Dear friends,

Last Sunday I was completely desperated as I was completely tired, I had like 20 days sleeping all day and the worst part was that I had to work a lot in order to make money and go to TCI for a proper diagnose.

So while looking for a medicine Caroline recommended I found a Spanish Web page which is called: Chronic Fatigue Seminar from the Biology Institute in Madrid.

Their theory is that chronic fatigue is caused by disequilibrium between copper and zinc, as both are important elements needed by the body when copper is not expelled by the body it concentrates at the liver and all the organism cells. When this happens then the liver can not work properly.

The document starts by saying that the copper is an essential mineral for health and that it intervenes in important processes such as:

Skin pigmentation, collagen elaboration and is the basic matrix for bone, articulations and conjunctive tissue.

It has an important role in reproduction and pregnancy

It participates in the well functioning of the thyroid and suprarenal glands which are both important for energy production.

The document says that the liver is in charge of the copper regularization at the body, when we take copper it is recuperated by the liver which put it together with proteins that allows that the mineral travels trough out the blood in order to carry its' functions.

Normally when we have a lot of copper it eliminates through out the bile which goes out from the stools. A bad functioning of the liver or the gall bladder can provoke its accumulation first at the liver and then in other organs, such as the brain, the heart, the kidneys and the suprarenal glands.

If our body does not consume copper or it is not well assimilated it can cause: arthritis, high blood cholesterol, multiple Sclerosis or Immune deficiency.

If our body accumulates a lot of copper or it does not eliminates properly it can be accumulated in different organs, interfere with the zinc work and it can produce general tiredness.

Copper and zinc have to act in a perfect equilibrium at the body in a mutual relationship of 1 particle of copper to 8 of zinc.

Events as stress, excessive exposure to copper of a minimum consumption of zinc can alter this equilibrium. If there is more copper than zinc at the tissue then it can cause chronic fatigue, as the copper ant the zinc are found in every cell, tissue and organs at the body.

When there is more copper than zinc at the cell level the following levels, tissue and organs, do not work properly and there is less production of energy which leads to chronic fatigue. This cause:

Hipothyroidism: When there is disequilibrium between copper and zinc the T4 does not convert to T3 at the cellular level, this affects the energy production, even though there are normal results at the blood tests. Hipothyroidism at the cell level produce tiredness.

Suprarenal insufficiency: Suprarenal glands produce cortisol which helps thyroid hormones to produce energy. For the production of suprarenal hormones the body needs zinc, when the copper level is higher the suprarenal hormones diminished.

Hepatic problems: The disequilibrium between copper and zinc produces liver problems as the copper is not eliminated by this organ so there is not proper production of glucogen which is needed to produce energy.

The disequilibrium between zinc and copper is caused by: diets which does not give enough proteins, they are rich in carbohydrates (sugar and flour) and do not have proper amounts of fat.

Other factors that affects are: modern agricultural practices as the land is not producing zinc because of the use of fertilizers and acid rain in which all our food grows. Also industrial processing of food promotes the lost of zinc at the procedure.

Other factors that reduce zinc at the body are:

Stress, coffee, alcohol, sugar, high carbobhydrate diets, some diuretics and antiacids, cortisone , surgery, burning, injuries, lowering weight, oral contraceptives, no sleeping, not eating properly, a lot of excercise, exposure to extreme temperature, exposure to substances.

Factors that increase copper:

Water, dental materials, copper fungicide, pesticides, plastics, laundry powder.

Medicines that produce copper increase at the body:

Cortisone, Tagamet, Zanac, antiacids, Diuretics, alcohol, sedatives, tranquilizers, psicotropics, and estrogens, intrauterine devices, and pregnant women who have high copper level in their blood can pass it to their unborn children.

All these are the cause of the main problem:

The suprarenals do not produce the necessary hormones for the liver to expel the copper at the stools. The suparenals react constantly to deal with stress by producing hormones that control the sugar level.

The suprarenal activity is needed to form proteins one of the called: CERULOPLASMINA is the most important one to expel copper.

If the suprarenals are week because of stress the liver produces less ceruplasmina and the copper starts accumulating in cells, tissues and organs.

All these leads to extreme suprarenal fatigue which is characterized by:

-Permanent tiredness or chronic fatigue.
-Need to eat sweet or sugar due to the constant need of energy not produced by cells.
- Need to eat salt due to the low level of sodium at blood.
- Low blood pressure.
- Attraction for stimulants as cells needs it.
- Stress constant feeling.
- Alergys to food and substances.
- Immune deficiency
- Hipoglucemic symptoms.
- Not willing to red meat proteins because they are not well digested by the body.
- Premenstrual syndrome.

As a consequence there is a constant need to eat sugar as part of the problem is caused by the suprarenal insufficiency caused by the copper – zinc disequilibrium. This leads to hypoglucemia.

Symptoms of hypoglucemia:

- Fatigue and sleepiness.
- Headaches
- Depression
- Irritability
- Weakness
- Concentration problems
- Bad memory


The proper level of sugar also depends on zinc, zinc is necessary for the production, secretion and storage of insulin; with out zinc the excess of copper or a bad proportion of copper-zinc impedes the pancreas to produce insulin which leads to chronic fatigue.

There are other problems that copper produce:

It stimulates the proper production of adrenaline, noradrenaline, dopamine, serotonine, with out zinc there could be an over production of all these, or a bad production or asimilation.

These produce emotional changes, bad or good ones, so the brain produces high intensive emotional reactions.

The zinc, on the contrary produces a moderation in all these. A proper balance of zinc produces calm reactions and administration of all these feelings and emotions.

Because of these zinc produces depression.

In addition to all these high concentration of copper can produce:

- Skin pigmentation
- Acne, soriasis, rash.
- Dry skin
- Hair that is dry and easy to break
- Bad cicatrization
- When the copper is not properly disseminated at the blood stream it could not be used so fungus appears. Copper when properly used causes to diminish fungus.
- There are studies which show that premenstrual syndrome presents in women that have high copper in their bodies, the symptoms of these women are: tiredness, depression, frontal headaches, emotional distress and cravings.

People with high level copper at their blood also have viral sickness which comes and goes all the time.

The diagnosis for the copper accumulation is made in urine, blood and minerals at the tissue. A copper level superior of 2.5 for 100 hairs is considered elevated.

Treatment:

The diet should be directed to consume more food rich in zinc and to avoid food rich in copper and also to avoid those which expel zinc. The strategy is to diminish copper while increasing zinc.

In order to do this you should: increase proteins: eat more meat, eggs, red meat, fish 2 o 3 times per week. Do not eat liver as it has a lot of copper.

Do not consume oysters, crabs, lobsters as they have a lot of copper.

Do not consume a lot of milk products as they slow down metabolism and with these the copper expulsion.

Do not consume dry fruits and grains as they have a high quantity of copper.

Do not eat cereals as they affect negatively the equilibrium between copper and zinc.

Do not eat sugar, chocolate, or any carbohydrate as they put the suprarenals and the pancreas to work a lot so this will cause more chronic fatigue.

Do not eat avocados as they are rich in copper.

Eat fat and fruits in moderation.

Eat a lot of vegetables.

Do not eat coffee, tea, alcohol and beer as they are rich in copper.

It also says that pending on the blood type you are you need different diets.

Take the following vitamins:

Zinc impedes the copper production and accumulation, does not say how much.
Manganeso and iron expel the copper from liver, does not say how much.
Molibdeno and sulphur join the copper at the intestine and helps its expulsion does not say how much.
3 grams per day of Vitamin C helps to expel copper as it joins at the blood stream to copper an expel it.
50 mg. Vitamins B6 and 50 mg of B2, 50 mg of B5, promotes the correction of the copper overload at the body.
Liphoic Acid helps to reduce the copper overload.
Omega 3 and 6 are also in the list.

As the copper starts going out from cells, tissue and organs, some symptoms appear:

Nausea
Diarrea
Anxiety
Mental hyperactivity, many thoughts will be produced.
Irritability
Emotional reactions
Headaches
Skin rash
Flu symptoms.
Insomnia

As I read all these, last Sunday I went to GNC and bought all of them and started taking them, and it was great all of what I read happened, I start with a lot of thinking, I was not tired any more, I did not have headaches, etc. I was not tired any more.

I have been drinking all the medicines all this week, I went to Guatemala and came back and many interesting happened:

I could remember my passport number!!!
I did not have the know waist pain I always have at the morning.
Some symptoms diminished.

The only problem was that the first day, that Sunday night I had a terrible rash, I have taken the medicines twice that day and all of the sudden I felt like I was burning, I had these awful rash in all my body, I was almost in shock, but these did not make me stop as I was feeling great!!! I take and antishistamine just that night. The rest of the week nothing happen, just some nausea and headaches.

Right know I am taking:

1000 mg. of Vitamine C
50 mg. of Zinc
100 mg. of V6
100 mg of B5
100 mg of liphoic acid
4 capsules of Multioil which has 3 and 6.

I stop taking Neurontin.

As I had insomia I tried the 400 of magnesio it is recommended, I worked and I sleep ok but I did not feel so well the day after. So I am going to take less of magnesio tonight.

I just wanted to share this with all of you because I think that many of you who has SM feels a lot of which I have described here: chronic fatigue, hypoglucemia, low pressure, head aches, etc. You can imagine how well I feel, I hope this lasts!!!

Well sorry for all my English mistakes but it was difficult to translate all these terminology, I had to use a dictionary.

You can look the info in Spanish at:

http://www.institutobiologico.com/semin ... ronica.htm

I hope this serves and at least help some of you as it has helped me. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Laura

SM t2-t7
LFRM
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:04 am

Postby cash71 » Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:43 pm

Laura, thats wonderful that you are finding some answers but I do not recall ever recommending any medication to you. I think I recommended acupuncture but nothing beyond that that I know of.

I just don't want there to be any confusion.

thanks,

Caroline
Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle (Plato)

Syrinx C3-T9, CM zero, OTC, cranial settling, dysautonomia/POTS, and ?EDS

see my blog for more info: http://www.chiariandsyringomyeliaincanada.blogspot.com/
User avatar
cash71
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:30 pm
Location: Vancouver Island

About chronic fatigue, hypoglucemia, zinc and copper

Postby LFRM » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:23 pm

Caroline:

I just chek out and it wasn't you, it was somebody else and it was not a medicine either it was di-methyl-glicine, something used for autism and for chronic fatigue too is an aminoacid, or something like that.

At this moment I am dedicated to look for any alternatives as the medicines are not working anymore.

So do not worry I understand it was n't you.


Thank you very much any way and I am very sorry for the confusion.

Laura
SM T2-T7
LFRM
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:04 am

Postby cash71 » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:55 pm

Thanks Laura.....no problem 8)

Caroline
Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle (Plato)

Syrinx C3-T9, CM zero, OTC, cranial settling, dysautonomia/POTS, and ?EDS

see my blog for more info: http://www.chiariandsyringomyeliaincanada.blogspot.com/
User avatar
cash71
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:30 pm
Location: Vancouver Island

Postby specialmomx2 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:12 pm

Laura,

Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to translate all of that article. That was a lot of work!

I am keenly interested in the subject of nutrition, metabolism and hormone function and how they all interrelate. The more I read about this stuff, the more I realize that there is deinitely a link there for *me*. I can't help wonder if this is not also true for other SMers, CMers or EDS-ers. Especially those of us who don't have CM but who have significant brain fog.

I know for a fact that my brain fog gets worse at certain times of my monthly cycle. I also know that when my blood sugar gets low, -even for a short time, that It effects me for at least a day afterwwards: I get a horrible headfache for hours and I cannot think until at least the next day -if I'm lucky.

Many of us seem to have problems with absorbtion or deficiency of certain minerals and vitamins; B12 the most obvious -but not the only example.

I am going to print this out to ask my endo about it when I see him next week. I'll let you know what he says.

Thanks again for that information. I did look at the Spanish article and then some of the links and keywords therein, but I didn't learn that much. Your translation gave me much more information than I managed to glean for myself.

-Paula
"idiopathic" SM T3-T5 taking 50% of available space. Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Cervical stenosis, DDD, metabolic issues including reactive hypoglycemia.

check out my blog: www.onesickmother.com
specialmomx2
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:47 am

Postby Graybo » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:00 pm

.
Last edited by Graybo on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Graybo
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:06 am

About chronic fatigue zinc, copper and minerals

Postby LFRM » Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:17 pm

Hello,

At this moment I am really looking for all the available alternatives.

The more I think about it the more I am sure that SM affects the endocrine system. When I laid down and I pressure my back to the mattress, it is like all the SM symptoms are worst, I feel numbness, I am tired, my neck and arms hurt. After a whole night sleeping over my back, then when I wake up and go to the bathroom in the morning I do not urinate, just a few drops. I have to walk and move so my kidneys start working again and after an hour or so I can go to the bathroom as anybody else.

So my hypothesis is: If the arms and legs nerves does not work properly because of the pressure the syrinx is causing over the spinal cord as information does not move at the nerve level, then my kidneys don't work too and of course the suprarenals too!!! So right know I think that this is why every body with SM does not have energy as this is the main work of these glands. I understood this when I read this article.

My question will be: Is there a connection between the level of the syrinx, this is the place in which it is located and chronic fatigue? Like for example my case. I have SM at the T2-T7. It is located at the same level in which the kidney -suprarenals are located, or in other words, the nerves that feed the kidneys and the suprarenals are the ones which are affected by the syrinx.

Before I new about SM I always thought that I had something at the suprarenals because I looked all symtoms of suprarenal failure and all of them check with me. But all my tests were always perfect, except for the pituitary gland as I have a microadenoma too.

When I read the article it was like I was reading many things that happened to me, I thought: This is me. So I did not doubt about taking all the vitamins.

Right now I am just taking all those vitamins and the pituitary gland medicine and I am still fine. I hope it really lasts. I have been working as I usually do!!! And it has always been a lot.

GB, can you elaborate more about the copper and the bone formation, because right now what I have been doing is to expel all of the copper I have and it worries me that I could be doing something wrong.

However as the article says the main issue is to preserve the copper and zinc equilibrium which means one particle of copper for 8 of zinc. So what I am doing is to eat normally what I have always eaten and then I take all the vitamins and minerals which are going to expel the copper out!!!

There has been some interesting indicators that this zinc and copper is working. I have copper flavor in my mouth, my stools (sorry for being so clear but I think it helps) have changed in their color, before it was yellow now they a have a normal brown!!! There has been many years in which I did not produce a proper stool color when I go to the bathroom!!!

I am not freezing anymore, I feel full of energy. Some times I get tired yes but like every body else at 44.

Of course numbness and some times pain are still there, but they are bearable, I can live with them and most important I can work.

I also think that the SM affects the sugar level in the blood, I need to eat very often if not SM symptoms are worst!!!

I think that SM affects the endocrine system because the spinal cord is in charge of the autonoums nervous system, and I really think that this sistem also controls some glands. If the spinal cord controls my bladder and intestine movements so these organs can function properly, why can the autonomous nervous system can also control the suprarenal movement in order to produce the necessary hormones that we need? There most be a relationship.

I really think that SM affects all body parts as the spinal cord send the energy to the rest of the nerves that make the body function and moves.

Another thing that I have been thinking is that all the antiepileptic drugs which I have taken the last 8 months in which SM got worst have a negative impact in the copper - zinc equilibrium, as all of them got me swallen so I had to take diuretics, so then the zinc was expeled continuously. So for me this could explain why I feel great at the begining of the treatment and worst and worst while the time passed on. This has happened to me with: Valproic acid, lyrica, neurontin, and Topamax, at the end I had to stop taking them as I felt worst with the medicine than with SM.

Perhaps this happens to many of you.

Thank you for your comments.


Laura
SM T2-T7









I
LFRM
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:04 am

Re: About chronic fatigue zinc, copper and minerals

Postby specialmomx2 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:13 pm

LFRM wrote:
My question will be: Is there a connection between the level of the syrinx, this is the place in which it is located and chronic fatigue? Like for example my case. I have SM at the T2-T7. It is located at the same level in which the kidney -suprarenals are located, or in other words, the nerves that feed the kidneys and the suprarenals are the ones which are affected by the syrinx.



Laura,

Excellent question. I have been thinking the same question but from a diffrent angle. I am waiting confirmation on this, but I seem to have a problem with oscillating blood calcium levels. Now this can happen for a lot of reasons, but I am starting to wonder if my syrinx (t3-t5) is impacting my lung function and the acid/alkaline balance in my blood? This could explain the non-epileptic seizures, as an overload of CO2 will cause serum calcium levels to plummet, causing my exact symptoms.

Of course this all speculation on my part. I have not found a single documented case of something like this happening due to Syringomyelia.

And adrenal function issues could explain a lot for me, too.

So too could a blown-out pyloric valve due to EDS.

I need to do more research on post-prandial CSF flow. Being sick is very tiring. I have never learned so much as I have in the past year and 21 specialists...


-Paula
"idiopathic" SM T3-T5 taking 50% of available space. Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Cervical stenosis, DDD, metabolic issues including reactive hypoglycemia.

check out my blog: www.onesickmother.com
specialmomx2
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:47 am

Postby Graybo » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:17 am

.
Last edited by Graybo on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Graybo
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:06 am

Postby RoadGlideMama » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:57 am

This is all fascinating. My sister died in 1992 from unexplained liver failure, even after a liver transplant at Univ. of Michigan. She was 21 and otherwise healthy. They tested her for everything they could think of time and time again. I was 18. Then 2 years ago I was reading an article and it talked about Wilson's Disease. Every one of her symptoms was in line with Wilson's. Unfortunately with her death being so long ago, I'll never know for sure. The doctors told me to always keep an eye out for anything strange. I had my doctor test my daughter for Wilson's Disease because the accumulation of copper can be detected past 6 months old.

Fast forward to 2007, I have SM from T4-T7. No surgery. Docs told me I have fibromyalgia. Lots of PMS problems.

But I live by the motto "everything in moderation". So unless I get a blood test back that tells me something is out of balance, I will keep eating a well-balanced diet. Full of whole grains, fruit and veggies and limit meat consumption, just enough to get the protein I need. I am leery of anything that over/under promotes a particular vitamin/mineral.

I totally believe everything is interrelated with our bodies. They are amazing machines. There are millions of chemical reactions happening every second in our bodies and no one has a clue at deciphering them.
RoadGlideMama
 

About chronic fatigue, hypoglucemia, zinc and copper

Postby LouiseB » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:24 am

I also have low blood sugar, and alot of the other syptoms you mentioned. Since reading you post I have been taking Vit c, zinc, omega 3 6, Vit b complex - was the only thing I could find- and iron becasue I know I´m low. I am eating more meat and vegetables and less starch and dairy and I feel good. I have more energy. My pain level is the same but the fatigue is diminished.

Thankyou

Lu
SM C4-T10, TSC - Release Sept 2007 as per Dr Bolognese advice. Syrinx shrunk. Symptoms the same.
LouiseB
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Spain

About chronic fatigue copper and zinc

Postby LFRM » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:08 am

After two weeks of my new treatment (vitamin C, zinc, alpha lipoic acid and V6) I still feel great!!! Just two symptoms remain: some times pain at the right upper part of my back and many times numbeness in all my right side, these of course are worst when I laid down over my back and even the left side is affected, but I have discovered that changing the pillow's position helps, alwo it helps to walk.

I have been working as I have always do, which is a lot. I am not tired and I am sleeping more. Some times I just wonder: Am I over charging my self with work?

JUst one day which I had a terrible problem at work and I really got mad, my symptoms worsend, I really think that stress makes worst SM. So I am learning to go away from anger, stress and people that can harm me.

Luise, the paper that I read say that all vitamins from the group B are good, but particularly B6 as it expels the copper. I have been making different tests, for example, one day not taking one of the vitamins and then see what happens, and definitely all help. One that I have noticed really helps is alpha liphoic acid. The document says it cleans the liver. I hope you can get them both. As I told you I bought them at GNC, this is not a commercial but is the only store ot this kind we have here in Mexico City.

Grey Bo, I agree with you that perhaps the problem can start higher but up until know the only diagnose that I have for sure is that I have SM T2-T7, but I also have several curves in my spine, one of them at my neck. I have been wondering is this is the cause of my continous arm numbness? I do not know But I will not know this as fact until I go to TCI.

I usually have an awful PMS it was worst and worst for the last months. I hope I do not get it this month with this new treatment.

I really hope this treatment help more people as it has helped me.

Laura
T2-T7
LFRM
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:04 am

Postby LouiseB » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:36 am

Laura,

can you tell me what alpha liphoic acid is in spanish. I live in spain, if I have the word I can ask at the famarcy to see if I can get it.

Thanks
SM C4-T10, TSC - Release Sept 2007 as per Dr Bolognese advice. Syrinx shrunk. Symptoms the same.
LouiseB
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Spain

About chronic fatigue, zinc and copper

Postby LFRM » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:18 pm

Luise:

Ã￾cido alfa lipoico.

If you read in Spanish go directly to the web page:

http://www.institutobiologico.com/semin ... ronica.htm

All the information about copper - zinc equilibrium and chronic fatigue is there, also the diet is more complete there than what I have translated, it also has special diets pending on your blood type.

I hope it serves.

Laura
LFRM
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:04 am


Return to All About Chiari, Syringomyelia, and Related Disorders

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron